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Twisted Pleasure

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So i facebooked the DNR and asked them "I heard a rumor that bowfishing is going to be open year around on inland lakes and streams next year? Can you confirm this or is it just rumor?"

They Replied "Hi David -- The spearing regulations are currently going through a multi-year review process, and proposed spearing regulations will go before the Natural Resources Commission for action in October (they will be presented for information in... September). The current proposal would open spearing up year-round, but that could change during the NRC approval process. You can contact the NRC commissioners and learn more at www.michigan.gov/nrc."

:hb:
 
Gosh man, I sure hope so! I'd die a happy man! BTW i still have your genny, ill prolly drop it off tonight.
 
So i facebooked the DNR and asked them "I heard a rumor that bowfishing is going to be open year around on inland lakes and streams next year? Can you confirm this or is it just rumor?"

They Replied "Hi David -- The spearing regulations are currently going through a multi-year review process, and proposed spearing regulations will go before the Natural Resources Commission for action in October (they will be presented for information in... September). The current proposal would open spearing up year-round, but that could change during the NRC approval process. You can contact the NRC commissioners and learn more at www.michigan.gov/nrc."

:hb:
Yessur that is the truth....ALL bodies of water starting April 1st 2012 will be open 365 days a year.... With ALL roughfish being open all year as well.... No mo designated seasons!!!!
 
Yessur that is the truth....ALL bodies of water starting April 1st 2012 will be open 365 days a year.... With ALL roughfish being open all year as well.... No mo designated seasons!!!!
Your Kidding! GOsh that is AWSOME! When did they finally deside this? this may be a stupid ? but what do ya mean by "rough fish"?
 
Your Kidding! GOsh that is AWSOME! When did they finally deside this? this may be a stupid ? but what do ya mean by "rough fish"?
There haven't been any final decisions yet.

:tu:
Make sure you voice your opinions ;)
Mike is right- now is the time to make our voices heard. Rob Miller has been working his tail off on this, but nothing is final. For those of you that didn't get Rob's email last week, I'll post it here:

"BAM and MACA Members,

Synopsis of today’s Warmwater Resource Committee Meeting in Lansing:

Attached are the proposed new bowfishing laws to be presented to the NRC in September for discussion. (Sorry about the upside down, you may have to print and turn to read) The process is to have this to the NRC in September for discussion and than back in October either for implementation or change or both. There are two items that I asked the warmwaters resources committee (renamed from coolwaters regulations committee) to consider. Item 1 is to include goldfish as legal fish to harvest (which was pretty much agreed to) and 2 is to allow invasive species as target fish. This brought up discussion as to laws governing the possession of invasive species, after review it was determined that the laws govern possession of live invasive species and their eggs etc. Idea here is to use a kill shot. I believe we may see these critters also listed as harvestable fish. Take note that the before requested restrictions on Houghton Lake and Fletchers Floodwaters have been deleted. Season is being proposed as all year and allowable species have been added to. Regretfully we still have trout water restrictions. My thoughts are that we should work with what is being offered and try and refine this again at another time. I hate to miss out on these new proposed rules over a fight to open trout waters to Bowfishing even if I do 100% believe these restrictions are wrong and need to be lifted-----Another day to debate.

Speaking with law enforcement I asked again about the issue of discharging a projectile within city limits in the act of bowfishing. Currently law enforcement is actively pursuing this question and will be looking to the Attorney General for an interpretation. Without putting my foot in my mouth I will say that at this time it appears that this will be determined to be a legal practice that is not affected by projectile laws instated in certain communities. Again I caution that the official determination is not yet complete but the research and data to date has me optimistic that we will like the outcome.

Very important are the upcoming NRC meetings. At the next meeting these topics will be looking for public comment. It will be held in Sault Ste Marie on September 15th at Lake Superior State University, 650 West Easterday Ave, Sault Ste Marie, MI 49783. See below for information on contacting the NRC with comments and or questions. I do ask each and every one of you that care at all about our sport of Bowfishing to MAKE time to either attend this meeting or at least make polite professional comment to the NRC on this issue. If you would like to include me millerelectric-@-wildblue.net (remove hyphens for correct email address) on any correspondence you send to the NRC I will save it for future reference. NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND HELP EXPAND OUR SEASON, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF EFFORT SPENT TO GET TO THIS POINT, NO EXCUSES ARE ACCEPTABLE, MAKE TIME AND AT LEAST WRITE A LETTER OF SUPPORT TO THE NRC ON THIS ISSUE. THANK YOU!

Ideas for NRC correspondence or consideration:

-Endorse the proposed law changes as written

-Challenge the restrictions of trout waters being off limits. (point is removal of rough fish is a benefit to all streams including trout streams and the only reason we are currently restricted is ease of enforcement of no spearing of trout) there is no science supporting these restrictions.

-Question why there are any restrictions??

-Offer facts as to the benefits of rough fish removal.

-Offer results and or studies that support the destruction caused by these rough fish. (Brian G. counting on you here?)

-Any other considerations you may have in relation to this issue

-Thank them for their time and consideration.

Listed above are items to help you get thinking of what to write. They are my thoughts and can definitely be expanded upon or even disagreed to.

Once again we need to remember why we have a voice at this level and why we have been afforded this opportunity to work closely with DNR Fisheries and Law Enforcement Departments. Thank you MUCC for your guidance and help with helping us to help ourselves. In appreciation to MUCC I also challenge every one of you to sign one new member up. When you do this mention that you are from BAM. Currently there is a membership drive available from the MUCC website in which you can receive a T-shirt for signing up a new member. It would make my day to attend the next board meeting and hear in a membership report that the Bowfishing Association Alone is responsible for 50 new MUCC members. In appreciation, let’s get it done. www.mucc.org

Time to act is now, or forever hold your peace.

Get er dun,

Rob Miller

BAM – MACA Liason, Warmwaters Resources Committee and MUCC

BAM officers I do not believe that I have the complete and current list of BAM e-mails, please forward this on as necessary and get me an updated list soon. Thanks

If you’re unable to attend the meeting but wish to submit written comments on Agenda items, please write to: Natural

Resources Commission, P.O. Box 30028, Lansing, MI 48909 or e-mail: whippled1@michigan.gov . If you would like

further information or would like to address the Commission, please contact Debbie Whipple at 517-373-2352 or e-mail:

whippled1@michigan.gov . Persons registering on or before the Friday preceding the meeting will be allowed up to five

(5) minutes for their presentation. Persons registering after the Friday preceding the meeting or at the meeting will be

allowed up to three (3) minutes. Persons with disabilities needing accommodations should contact Debbie Whipple.

Look for this Agenda and other Natural Resources Commission items at: http://www.michigan.gov/dnre and click on

the “Natural Resources Commission” Quick Link."
 
If you didn't receive the email, send Rob an email and he'll put you on the list.

One of the main reasons that a lot of the waters are restricted is to protect some game fish. ...mostly pike and musky. We need to convince them that bowfishermen are an ASSET to the conservation of their game fish- not a detriment. We are able to successfully and selectively harvest invasive species that are destructive to the waters and fish that they are trying to protect.

As Rob pointed out, another of their concerns for trout streams is enforcement. Well, we see game fish on ALL legal waters anyways, yet we pass them up as we hunt for legal rough fish. What is the difference between passing on a salmon in the river vs passing on a salmon in a trout stream? We already have to identify our fish before shooting it, and it's this ability to selectively harvest rough fish that should put a rest to their concern. Again, by removing some of the suckers out of these trout streams, bowfishermen would be an asset to the waters- not a detriment. And that is what we need to attempt to convince them. Citing facts always helps to add credit to your claim.

Unless work interferes, I'm going to attend the Lansing meeting in October. If anybody else on the west side would like to carpool, let me know. I can fit six in the cab, and more in the bed! If you can't make it, please send a letter to Debbie at the NRC- her contact info is above.
 
If you didn't receive the email, send Rob an email and he'll put you on the list.

One of the main reasons that a lot of the waters are restricted is to protect some game fish. ...mostly pike and musky. We need to convince them that bowfishermen are an ASSET to the conservation of their game fish- not a detriment. We are able to successfully and selectively harvest invasive species that are destructive to the waters and fish that they are trying to protect.

As Rob pointed out, another of their concerns for trout streams is enforcement. Well, we see game fish on ALL legal waters anyways, yet we pass them up as we hunt for legal rough fish. What is the difference between passing on a salmon in the river vs passing on a salmon in a trout stream? We already have to identify our fish before shooting it, and it's this ability to selectively harvest rough fish that should put a rest to their concern. Again, by removing some of the suckers out of these trout streams, bowfishermen would be an asset to the waters- not a detriment. And that is what we need to attempt to convince them. Citing facts always helps to add credit to your claim.

Unless work interferes, I'm going to attend the Lansing meeting in October. If anybody else on the west side would like to carpool, let me know. I can fit six in the cab, and more in the bed! If you can't make it, please send a letter to Debbie at the NRC- her contact info is above.
What is the date of the October meeting in Lansing?
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
I'd be down to go in October, we need to get this thing passed. I'm sure me and Mr. RockSolid could meet up with ya! It cant be around duck opener tho lol ;)
 
FANTASTIC news! I've been wondering why MI's season is only 3-1/2 mo. long, so will be sending my comments along to the NRC soonest. During this years BAM Muskegon Lake tourney as well as on all other outings on nearby lakes I notice they are all LOADED with Suckers - need to get them on the legal harvest list. Hope everyone submits comments also, as th9is needs to get approved! Will copy to Rob Miller w/ my comments as requested - Thanks Rob!
 
Amen to thread # 13 - It is important to see the actual proposal in order to comment intelligently to the Natural Resources Commission. I did request via email to Rob Miller to send me an email link or an attached doc or pdf of the actual proposal. If I receive it, I will post here on this thread. As important as this is to ALL bowfishing interests (individuals, BAM, MUCC, etc., plus all manufacturers such as Oneida, AMS, Cajun, Muzzy, Extreme, PSE, Innerloc, etc., etc.), I can't believe there isn't more chatter on this or on other threads! Lets get mobilized everyone - this is CRITICAL stuff here!
 
IMPORTANT

Ok, not wanting to wait, I just got the info first-hand by calling Debbie Whipple at the NRC. The proposed changes to Michigan FO 219 to become effective April 1, 2012 are to be open all year in all inland waters with greatly expanded species available to harvest. These proposed changes will be reviewed at the Sept NRC meeting and then voted on at the Oct. meeting.

Details can be found at the following 2 links. The second link is the actual proposed FO 219 (see page 5, but read the first 4 also).

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/agnSept11_361507_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FO_219_-_INFO_ONLY_361182_7.pdf

PLEASE SEND YOUR COMMENTS TO DEBBIE WHIPPLE AT: WhippleD1@michigan.gov

Also send a copy to Rob Miller at: millerelectric@wildblue.net as he has requested above.

GET ACTIVE!
 
Great, I'll be sending in my comments of support as well! The COBF has also posted this on the ColoradoBowfishing.org website and asked all COBF members to send in comments of support if they so choose! Hopefully the proposed changes will go through.
 
I am taking liberty to communicate Rob Miller's EXCELLENT summary (BAM rep to NRC Workgroup for proposed MI FO-219 changes) from the 9/15/11 NRC meeting. He presented a cogent and well-constructed comment in support of the proposed changes which will be of great benefit to all bowfishing sportsmen. However, there is a new wrinkle that could delay or even cancel the proposed changes! Please read the ALL of the following, and GET ACTIVE! If you do submit comment to the NRC, be sure to copy Rob so he will be well-informed for upcoming NRC meetings!
__________________________________________________ _____________

"Members,

First and foremost I would like to thank the 4 of you that I am aware of that took a minute or too out of your schedule to offer insight to the NRC on this issue, without input this decision could go any direction. The input that I was made aware of from our 4 members was very well put together and well received, again Thank you.

I did make the trip to Saulte Ste Marie, but only for the public comment period which started at 5:30 PM. Through briefings from MUCC and the fisheries department this is what was learned;

-Michigan Darkhouse Angling Association has spoke out against this resolution, this is why;

-MDAA is not happy with the bodies of water (I believe29) that are still listed per FO219 as off limits to spearing. They are working toward full implementation of spearing and at this time are not willing to accept this proposal as a compromise.

-MDAA has gone beyond the warm waters committee and NRC to the legislature. Again they are asking that this is not accepted as listed currently with these restrictions. It sounds like there is some political pressures being put upon Director Stokes to not approve this until the restrictions are fully debated and or explained.

-Speaking with the MDAA, they have stated their intent is not to hold our portion back, but in reality that is what is currently happening.

-My understanding is that this will come again for discussion at the October and maybe November NRC meetings before it can hopefully be voted on at the December meeting. I believe these meetings are in the Lansing area and again are open to the public.

Much like the MDAA I am not 100% satisfied with these changes as we are still restricted on trout waters, which makes no sense. I am still asking members to speak to this point through a letter or whatever to our NRC members. Nonetheless we as BAM are supporting this FO219 because it is a great improvement to what we have been used to. This is with hopes of addressing the trout area closures at a future time. Our position has been to support these changes and hope for implementation before next years season is scheduled.

To follow are comments I offered at this meeting:



Thanks for this opportunity, Rob Miller with Warmwaters Resources Committee and Bowfishing Association of Michigan commenting on FO219.

As warmwaters member I would like to offer support to the FO219 proposed changes. This committee has been working with all sides of these issues and is offering here a good simplified compromise to spearing regulations by reducing the number of restrictions and opening/extending opportunities while trying to maintain a few lakes with strict take regulations. I am aware that no sides have received exactly what they have asked for, that’s what a compromise is. My expertise is not with pike nor musky. My main interest is with roughfish bowfishing. Now I would like to talk as a representative to the Bowfisng Association Michigan BAM.

BAM is in full support of these FO219 proposed changes. As with other interests we are not being offered a homerun with this, as this order still restricts rough fish bowfishing on trout waters. We fully intend to continue to work through committee to further reduce these restrictions in the near future. The removal of rough fish is by all counts beneficial to our waterways and helps enhance the habitat of our desired game fish. Non game fish compete for resources and habitat, cause destruction of substrate and interfere with aquatic ecosystems by the depletion of items such as vegetation. We strongly feel that our historical season limitations are/were based on pike and musky issues and we were generalized in as rough fish bowfishing was not well represented. All research we can find clearly shows that there is absolutely no scientific research that goes against removal of these roughfish. Research actually shows benefits of removing these fish from our waterways. I have with me information from Lake Wingra (Wisconsin) which clearly illustrates the damage and turbidity carp cause our waterways. The photo offered is a 2 acre enclosure in a 300 acre lake after 1 year of no carp in the enclosure.

BAM together with MUCC has been working on, and three times since 2001 unanimously passed resolutions to simplifying and loosening restrictions on bowfishing.

Currently BAM is working with Mary Benson MDNR on getting our youth involved. (thanks to Bran Gilson)

BAM is receiving requests from several lake associations to host competition shoots on their lakes to help rid them of these destructive rough fish. BAM very much applauds MUCC, MDNR, Warmwaters Committee in these proposed changes and we look forward to their implementation. We are hopeful that you folks that are NRC members and Director Stokes will support this. Furthermore we are hopeful that if questions or concerns exist we will be made aware of them so that we can help with the clarification and solution.

Thanks

BAM rep. Rob Miller





Amy Trotter (MUCC) also spoke in support of this. The entire meeting can be viewed via MUCC at www.mucc.org the public comment was at the end of the meeting.



Comments I received from the commissioners were from commissioner Brown who asked:

-What happens to these fish after removal?

My answer: Some are buried, some are worked into the ground for fertilizer, some are sent to a fertilizer plant for processing, very few are ate by humans.

-What happens to the mercury in these fish when they are brought from the waterways and deposited on the ground, what environmental effects does this bring?

I had to step back on this and offered to answer at the next meeting. ----I NEED SOME HELP HERE?

Above is my best synopsis of where we are and what is coming in the immediate future.

As always, get involved or settle for the consequences,

Thanks,

Rob Miller





If you’re unable to attend the meeting but wish to submit written comments on Agenda items, please write to: Natural

Resources Commission, P.O. Box 30028, Lansing, MI 48909 or e-mail: whippled1@michigan.gov . If you would like

further information or would like to address the Commission, please contact Debbie Whipple at 517-373-2352 or e-mail:

whippled1@michigan.gov . Persons registering on or before the Friday preceding the meeting will be allowed up to five

(5) minutes for their presentation. Persons registering after the Friday preceding the meeting or at the meeting will be

allowed up to three (3) minutes. Persons with disabilities needing accommodations should contact Debbie Whipple.

Look for this Agenda and other Natural Resources Commission items at: http://www.michigan.gov/dnre and click on

the “Natural Resources Commission” Quick Link."
 
Great update and thanks for all your hard work Rob!

However, there is a new wrinkle that could delay or even cancel the proposed changes!
Michigan Darkhouse Angling Association has spoke out against this resolution….Speaking with the MDAA, they have stated their intent is not to hold our portion back, but in reality that is what is currently happening.
So the short of it is that all the benefits of FO-219, expanded waters/seasons/species could be off the table for 2012 and delayed/cancelled entirely?

So I guess I'm not totally understanding why the MDAA is fighting against this. Progress is progress in my book and if seasons/species/waters are expanded that is huge benefit to anyone sticking fish spears/bows in Michigan. Even if this is not 100% of what everybody wants in an ideal world, why would this proposal be shutdown because one group is not getting exactly what they want? Their way or the highway is the only way forward? Seems unreasonable. Incremental progress seems like the best route here… get these changes locked in, then work next year for more expansion or to get their concerns addressed. Also isn't the NRC in charge of fishing regulations rather than the legislature? When I read FO-219 this paper appears to be internally authored by fisheries mangers within the DNR, so it would appear that should have a lot of weight.

Question: Are there more bowfisherman or darkhouse spearfisherman in Michigan? Who has the larger constituency and purchasers of fishing licenses? Sounds like the NRC needs to hear from more bowfisherman on this issue?

What happens to the mercury in these fish when they are brought from the waterways and deposited on the ground, what environmental effects does this bring?
Seriously? Sort of a red flag question in my mind, i.e. what is the real agenda of this question? I mean rough fish are generally non-predatory which means their mercury levels should be lower, then lets say walleye or pike etc. If the real concern here is that bowfisherman may be indirectly "threatening" the environment through mercury… then that concern should be re-directed to rod-n-reel harvest where the fish (generally predatory in nature) are actually being consumed by human beings! Not to mention potential entrails discarded into lakes, landfills, public trash facilities etc. What about the natural die-off of fish with mercury in their systems and simply rot in the lake? Any concern over bowfisherman reducing rough fish populations and using them as fertilizer or burying them on private property seems a bit over the top.
 
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