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Was getting ready to pull the trigger on a new osprey then saw the black eagle posts,I figured why spend the money on a osprey when I can wait and get a BE BUT I have seen no info on the price range.Can someone give me an idea of what they run in cost? Thank you , Jerry.
 

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A new-in-box BE would be so rare, there's no telling what it would cost. If you need a bow anytime soon, you might just want to go with the osprey. If you're looking for a used BE significantly cheaper than an Osprey, you can find it, but you may be looking for a while. Personally, I went the Osprey route after getting tired of looking for a while.
 

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They don't make the black eagle anymore and they are about the same price as a ospray sometimes more.
 

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I just saw a couple of guys at the dam with take-down recurve bows and thought to myself, "If it's not too expensive to machine a riser for a cheap take-down bow, why is it so much more dad-blamed expensive to make one for a lever bow?" It needs what, four more holes in it? Maybe machine from a forging? I've looked into machining one myself and a billet big enough is pretty pricey buying just one at a time.It's hard to believe it's so much cheaper to melt metal and pour it into investment moulds than it is to machine it from a larger piece.
 

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I think from my experience JP the molds pay for themselves quickly versus the individual setup required for machining from a billet. Even machining with quick change tooling you could kick out a riser using a mold about every minute, maybe less. For that matter depending on the size of the shot arm and mold you could probably have a mold that could make multiples at one time.
 

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I think from my experience JP the molds pay for themselves quickly versus the individual setup required for machining from a billet. Even machining with quick change tooling you could kick out a riser using a mold about every minute, maybe less. For that matter depending on the size of the shot arm and mold you could probably have a mold that could make multiples at one time.
But that is the exact reason why the BE guys like the BE.. .It is a machined riser verses the Cast Magnesium riser of the Osprey
 

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I think from my experience JP the molds pay for themselves quickly versus the individual setup required for machining from a billet. Even machining with quick change tooling you could kick out a riser using a mold about every minute, maybe less. For that matter depending on the size of the shot arm and mold you could probably have a mold that could make multiples at one time.
Yeah, I understand it must be the case, but I've seen videos of the investment casting process and it seems about as intensive as machining to my untrained eye. Are they investment cast for sure? If they are cast in a reusable mold that would make more economic sense. Looks like a lot of overhead with insurance, safety equipment, etc. On the other hand, I don't really see a need for very much quick-change tooling to machine one--looks like a single end mill could be used in a CNC mill to machine the whole thing. Maybe not on an original BE riser, but maybe it could be slightly changed for machinablilty. Just dreaming...
Why don't they cast the limb pockets instead of CNC?
 

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The molds are definitely reusable. The only problems that occur with molds over time are that runners and other portions of them get "washed out" from so much usage. The good thing is that a skilled mold maker can tig the imperfections and rework them over and over. For the same reason they can also be modified to a certain extent before it's not economically viable and a new mold is required. Molds aren't a good choice for low volume runs either, that would be cost prohibitive. As far as a single end mill being used to machine a riser I don't think that would work either, it would require more than one. It would require ball end mills and standard end mills. Limb pockets are machined I would imagine due to how they're being used. You wouldn't want any casting imperfections in those! You'd also want to pay a lot of attention to the type of heat treatment the alloy receives.
 

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Thanks for the info; from a picture Limbhanger showed me of some casting imperfections in an Osprey riser, it looked to me like an investment casting. This does kinda concern me, though. I've always thought the weakness of the osprey riser over the milled risers was "trumped up" but if they use metal molds, I'm kinda concerned about internal imperfections. But then again, you don't see many breaking. I still think a "single end mill" riser is possible. I think a standard end mill could be used alone: the tip for maching flats and the side for machining all radii. With some standardization in the designing stage, it could even be used to drill the holes for the cam axles, idlers, berger hole, and maybe more. I think the problem is in the design. The designers and the makers need to get together and design one that could be easily machined.

It would be nice to know the actual breakdown of the costs that go into an Oneida. Transparency is important in business. Consumers are not always as dumb as some people believe. What keeps Oneidas out of many hands is the fact that people look at an Osprey and then they look at a fully machined wheel bow and say, "Why can they machine a riser for this cheaper bow but Oneida can't machine a riser for that one?" Compare an $800 wheel bow to an Osprey and most of them have a very large riser with a tremendous amount of machining done, not to mention very large, intricately machined cams. Some of us are willing to pay for the performance we like so much, but many are not. Saying, "it's the best" just doesn't cut it for many people. I think there is a lot of room for improvement and I hope JP makes it happen.
 

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The big bow companies know what their "new bow" design will be for the next 10 years. Jp is a smart guy. Once he thinks he has sold enough of the Ospreys with the new limb pockets I would bet he will bring back the BE. He knows what everybody wants that's why he fixed the limb pockets first thing
 
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