We as the board are gonna have to lay everything out and have a course of action if and when this all comes out.....I am starting to get more and more phone calls regarding the e-mails the pro-staffers got severing all ties with the BAA, and people are floored as to why.....
I spent a few hours talking with them on sunday, and alan spent quite a few hrs talking with them today, monday.....
This is what they stated to me( I had not had a chance to view it well at this point):
1. We copied their format
2. Should have shown respect and common courtesy to let them know
3. Their magazine is copyrighted.

This is my take:
1. we did not copy their format. We have had a journal for 20 yrs. It was black and white for cost reasons, but since its free, now its color. We could only afford 28 pages before, but now its free with unlimited pages.
2. Respect was discussing it at the spring meeting with them out in the open and releasing it after the Bowfisher Magazine came out, again, as discussed at the spring meeting. It is something that we do for the BAA members, and we do advertisement for the manufacturers who are in any way related to the BAA in donations and sponsorship.
The manufacturers are not gonna drop anyone just because one place is running ads without them having to pay for them...its just a bonus for them. We do not sell the magazine, and only put it out in open forum for people to see what the journal will look like as opposed to just trying to tell them.
3. Copyrighting: I have written articles for over a year and let them use them with no pay or any type of statement from them that I cannot use them anywhere else. I was told of copyrighting by penny, and attorney mentioned, but again have never been told that I would no longer own my articles if they had used them. This will be a major problem for me if this is the case. I have an article( why should I join the BAA) that has been in the Bowfisher, on BFC, BAA website, and now in the journal with no issues before....so why now?
4, We are an electronic (digital) journal for the members which is not for sale, and is there for BAA members as it has always been. Theirs is a printed publication that is for sale online, at hastings, barnes and noble, and other places including thru us before with no monies going to the BAA from it, but was there to help them grow and get yet another market to have as our way to help them.
5. I was understanding with them and willing to talk with them until the words my attorney will send you a letter came out.....from that point forward was a mistake for penny to say to me....now I consider her like my ex-wife without the kid to hang over my head.....that is the hardest thing for me to get thru..ed popped in my mind also with that statement....she told me from that point forward that the possibility of working thru and calming part with our intentions were done.

As I posted on the other thread about this:
1. we got them subscriptions with our memberships with memberships going up to $40.00 this year, if you got the Bowfisher Magazine your membership stayed at $30.00 for the BAA and the additional $20.00 was for your year's subscription to the Bowfisher.
2. They could have used our articles if they had wanted to I am sure, and pics for their magazine since it is for BAA members, and some of their articles they have printed was from BAA members....it could have been a pool to choose from(again, as far as I was concerned), but they severed those ties.
3. Another thing that I am still not happy with is the Bowfisher expo packet they are now offering, where she contacted the BBC in little rock where we have set up for the last few years and do it for free, and she was gonna charge them $500.00 + hotel expenses for a power point presentation and bowfishing seminar considering they came with us 2 yrs ago, and was invited to come this year.( is this listed on BFC anywhere as to them offering this packet?)
I am still asking if that is direct conflict or competition???? I guess it depends on which side of the fence she is seated on at the time. They also have a fish tank they set up for more money. Chances are I would have been a little better finding out from them instead of the Big Buck Classic, but most likely not.

Please post on this thread any pro's and con's to us having the e-journal in your opinion, for we need to decide how we are going forward....I will save my say till everyone has theirs, but I do not have a vote with anything...

 

I want to make it perfectly clear mark that while designing the layout for the E-Journal we never even opened up a bowfisher magazine. We in no way copied them at all! That would have been stupid on our part and was taken into consideration from day one!

My take on this is that they are pissed off becuase it came out so well and I am guessing they are thinking we are going to be competing in someway. But that is just may take, my opinion, and opinions are like butt holes! Everyone has one.

They are threatening legal action to scare the BAA from producing the E-Journal. Which is really sad, but when all you can see is dollar signs I guess that happens.

I had the greatest respect for Dan and Penny for coming out with the bowfisher but they are starting to show there true colors. They aren't in for the sport, they are in it to get as much money out of it as possible and they are showing that by threatening legal action against the oldest Bowfishing fishing org in the country. :td:

 

They where there and voted with us!!
Maybe they did not pay attention!!
But we voted on making the E-Journal!!!

 

Well they( the Bowfisher ) are now saying that the E-journal must be removed from all online resources showing the Journal or they will have those sites shut down.

 

I just got this e-mail from them...
I sent them an e-mail earlier and here is where it is so far:


the whole journal is not copyright infringement, which part of it is?

--- On Mon, 4/4/11, pswearingin@thebowfisher.com <pswearingin@thebowfisher.com> wrote:


From: pswearingin@thebowfisher.com <pswearingin@thebowfisher.com>
Subject: The E-Journal
To: "mark lee" <mwl5025@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 7:46 PM


Mark,


I have talked to our attorney's and he has said that there is definitely copyright infringements, and to ask you to pull the E-Journal down off BFC, your site, and all members who have posted on FB or they will instruct server companies that handle all the sites, that there are copyright infringements and they will shut the sites down.

Flag this messagee-journalMonday, April 4, 2011 12:50 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"mark lee" <mwl5025@yahoo.com>View contact detailsTo: "dan swearingin" <dswearingin@thebowfisher.com>, "penny swearingin" <pswearingin@thebowfisher.com>Cc: "lisa dunkle" <bowfishinchick@yahoo.com>, "jason greer" <fetchcinder@hotmail.com>, "amanda Nichols" <bowfishinbabe@gmail.com>, "alan yedor jr." <yedor@cox.net>, "mark lee" <mwl5025@yahoo.com>

What articles do you feel may be considered copyrighted from the Bowfisher Magazine that are now in the e-journal? We were under the assumption that the people who sent them in owned them, myself included. we will be happy to remove the articles and photo's that you feel may be infringement until we can find out the legalities of the these issues. We feel that this is the best course to take to try maintain a journal for our members that we have had for over a decade while trying to handle your concerns in a timely manner without possibly violating any copyright infringements with the Bowfisher Magazine with past issues that the Bowfisher has used. I look forward to your response so we can handle this as quickly as possible.

 

The funny thing is they could have it flagged at issuu for copyright infrigments and they would pull it down if that was the case.

 

They're gonna have facebook, issuu and Alex (since he is his own service provider) shut down. :cf:

 

Thats exactly what I was thinking! Ya theyre going to get FB shut down over a bowfishing magazine, good luck!

This has gotten so out of control, I just still cant believe they are wanting to take this so far! It sounds like you haven't seen the letter they sent out to the pro staff members, I'll copy it below. I say we continue with the e-journal without question, let them say what they want to.




Today the BAA has introduced the E-Journal, which is basically an online magazine that follows a format the same as The Bowfisher Magazine, and even includes two articles that were in issue one and three. In conversations with Mark Lee at the BAA, he does not believe that it is in direct competition, and that they use to put out an E-journal...but it didn't look like this and follow our format, etc.


We believe this E-Journal is in direct competition with The Bowfisher Magazine, therefore we have severed our ties with the BAA. If the E-Journal would have included all articles relevant to the BAA, what is happening, Rep news, etc...we would not have a problem with it...but this is basically an online bowfishing magazine. Wiith the relationship that we had established with the BAA, I would have thought they would have considered that this might be not in their best interest and as a courtesy not pursue all the articles and layout as they have.


An example would be that we have an agreement with BFC, that as long as we are able to advertise on BFC, that we will not have a bowfshing forum. Out of courtesy we have kept to our word. We are here to promote all bowfishing and keep a unity within all the bowfishing industry. It is not our mission to compete or allienate any companies or organizations in the industry, but believe this is a conflict of interest.


If you are currently a BAA State Rep, please do not feel as though you have to take sides and feel like you have to make a decision. These are just our opinions and we have to protect our livlihood and the existence of The Bowfisher Magazine.


Dan Swearingin
Editor-In-Chief
The Bowfisher Magazine
http://www.thebowfisher.com

 

I am hard pressed to go public with that e-mail....

 

They keep going the way they are going and it's going to go public.

 

I do not get the Bowfisher, and now I am very glad I do not.

 

Wow....I am pizzed off now! They (the bowfisher) can suck it!! Sorry...not too pc I know!

 

I vote we leave it and keep moving forward! I hate to say this...but if BAA members came together our pockets will be a little deeper than theirs. Hope it never goes there. They was there at the spring meeting, heard what was being discussed, injected their comments and ledt. When I spoke with Dan & Penny following the meeting at the NWTF convention they were mad because the BAA wouldnt listen to Dan's comments on the FREE membership to the BAA and then have state reps host fundraising tournaments.

 

Mark
I need to know when (if) they cone back with a response on what they feel is copyrighted.

It's getting to the point where I'm about right ready to start swinging back.

 

Thanks for sharing that Aaron. That just pisses me off further because in no way did copy there layout in any way. Other than possibly using issuu, a "free" publication hosting site and there flip page layout is 100% issuu not the bowfishers or the Baa. You simply upload your PDFs and they convert it.

 

Ya I just think theyre thinking is funny! I think theyre main concern is the advertisment issue, they think that since these companies are getting it free here they wont want to pay to advertise in the bowfisher, thats just not ture. Think about how many hunting magazines there are, all the same compines advertise in all the different magazines, its the same concept except we're not out to make money.

They are just worried about the dollar, plain and simple and thats just sad. I had no idea thats what they were all about

 

All those companies have X dollars for advertising each year and since the journal is free that doesn't take away from that at all.

They may think it's funny but they are pisding off bowfishermen all over the country. And those people are supporters, subscribers, free writers, and many with close ties to there advertisers. They may think it's cute but at this point I'm not going to hold back the hounds if they get pissed that a supposed bowfishing support(Bowfisher) is threatening legal action against a bowfishing organization, as well as site that support bowfishing(Bfc)

There gonna find out in a hurry, this ain't funny.

 

Well I hope you all enjoyed it because Penny and Dan at the The Bowfisher have spoken with there attorney and are claiming there is copyright infrigments with the journal and the Bowfisher. As of yesterday the BAA has asked for clarification on what maybe copyrighted as they were under the assumption that all the articles and photos submitted to the journal were owned by the members that sent them in, but we would be glad to remove them until the legalities of they issues could be resolved.
Their response was there are copyright issues and want the journal taken off all the sites it's posted on, including face book or there attorney will contact those server sites and have them shut down.


So since the Bowfisher will not clarify on what might be a copyright issue so we can address the problem, we may be forced to remove the E journal. We'll see.

I would also like to add that at no time did we knowingly violate any copyrights. All photos and articles were submitted by there perspective owners, other than some ads which were designed by Baa members for supporting Baa companies or submitted by those companies. And the flip page layout design is an issuu template not something we made. And for those of you not familiar with issuu, it's a free publication hosting site(similar to YouTube but with publications). If that happens to be who they use? I'm sorry but that's out of our control.

 

Ive already prepared a post for the public, and it is designed to be placed in the journal thread.

Mark Alan or any Baa board member can post it as far as I'm concerned.


Just don't modify it or you'll be hearing from my attorney :laugh:

 

Well I was leaning for us to keep the e-journal for members only, but now I think we might have to keep it public.

 

Unbelievable

 

i had long conversations with dan an penny yesterday over this.i was hoping this would be settled peicefully but just dont think it is gonna go in that direction.all i kept hearing was the e journal looks like the bowfisher magizine.even if it did,so what.the baa is a non profit group and after since 1990 we have had a bowfishing journal.now we have the right staff and people handling our e journal and making it look like something with some color an detail to it.sorry but i dont see us changing and moving backwards,especially when we were here first...

 

Mike I say go ahead and pull the 2 stories they are crying about.
So then there is no copy right issue.

 

We offered to mud, but they won't tell us exactly what is copyrighted

 

Just got off the phone with Alan and he has spoke with an attorney. The attorney stated the only way the article or photos submitted can be copyrighted is if there was a contract stating so.

They brought up Robert Rices article and joes article to Alan as well as the fact it looks like there magazine. I'm guessing because we have similar content ie articles, gear reviews, photos and ads.

 

I really can't see them having a case. Like I said before there are lots of magazines with similar layouts.

 

Just got off the phone with RR, he has signed nothing.
It his story to give to anyone he want to.

Joe did you sign anything?

 

We did not sign anything for our article nor was there any type of written agreement thru email. I knew right after the spring meeting something was fishy about them two. i even told Joe that I did not like them. I think the ejournal is awesome and should be kept up. I think we should all post the article on our facebook pages. I mean look at how many different hunting magazines there are out there. Those companies are not getting their panites in a wad over stupid crap. Let them waste their money on an attorney cause they will be the ones losing all kinds of money in the end when the BAA wins.

 

what course of action should we take?
should we pull the journal for this issue and put it out at a later date>
should we prepare to fight legally?
what do you think>

 

I think we leave it and hold our ground. I dont think they have a legal case

 

X2!!