Yes, the lights are definitely grounded to the fixture. My buddy took all his internal grounds off and insulated them with silicone. Not sure of the details...maybe he will see this and post up. He discovered the problem because of two reasons...batts were draining way too quick and he had some kind of switch light lighting up when nothing was powered up. The light was receiving back power thru the boat. The batt draining was due to conflicting 12v and 24v grounds (there was a 12v source grounded to the boat).

 

Robin,saw your reply in another post so checked that area first. Was still reading almost 7 volts a.c from ;the hull to earth ground with ground removed from inside the light. Also switched the blue and brown wires,nuetral and hot wires in the plug and still had readin.g of almost 7 volts with one lite thru the hull to ground. As add or turn more lites on I was reading an increase of almost 7 volts ac per lite read with a meter from hull to earth ground.Was posting it to see if anyone else has seen this problem,turn your lites on and check from boat hull to ground.I am try insulating fixture from lite rail and / or the hull and will keep you posted.Like said saw voltage recorded but no current with meter.Was hoping OBG,Istickem or couple of the other gurus might chime in....but wanted to put it out there to check so someone doesn't get their boat eaten up with stray voltage.We were going to add 4 more lites to new boat and that would put stray voltage on boat at around 60-70 volts.Definitely gonna beef up replace anodes in the boat but this still doesn't seem right to me..

 

Just a thought...Could it be the batteries have found a path to ground (ground fault) maybe try isolating the batteries?

 

Second sentence in post, disconnected all 12 v batteries....this is an AC voltage issue

 

An update,I picked up some nylon bolts, nuts and washers and did a check on one lite. I mounted and insulated the one lite from the lite rail and plugged it in and now read .01 ac volts from the hull to earth ground now. Plugged 1 other lite in mounted tight to the rail with metal hardware and read 6.6 ac volts from the hull to earth ground. I am going to remount all the lites to the lite rail by insulating them and as stated will also change and upgrade the boat zinc anodes.I notice some very small pits starting in couple small spots along the waterline in a couple spots which is what started everything. Was wondering if this is or was really anything to worry about,but figured I would share it as precaution to others if it was something to worry about...

 

It is your led inside the light fixture. I am the one robin is talking about. I spent a week chasing this issue. Mine had to do with a 24 volt system but still the same idea. The led is grounded to the housing and when it is powered on it the puts a "waste" voltage if you will on to the boat. It can even put voltage on the boat with out turning it on. I assume it has to do with the "starter" that is on th led housing suppling voltage to the led.

I'm not a electrical guru by any means but I am a MDT tech in the automotive field for 15plus years so I do have some experience with electrical stuff. At least 12 volts anyway.

How I fixed mine. I removed the glass and pulled the led away from the housing and the waste voltage went away. So I took high temp silicone and put it behind one of the LEDs and turned it one. Voltage still gone. So I did a test and let it run for about 8 hours one day to see if I burned it up due to not being able to transfer heat as well. It ran fine. So next I did it to all nine LEDs I have and now I have no voltage on my ground.

The outcome is I get a WAY longer run time on my LEDs and I have no voltage on my ground.

If you questions I can try to answer better tonight. I am on my iPad and it sucks to type on this thing.

 

Thanks for the reply back,I know some people think I am freaking crazy,I have spoke to couple electricians and had an electrician stop by and check and showed him the crazy voltage readings I was seeing and couldn't believe what we were getting.I was going to make quik video with what we were getting with meter readings, and where I was getting those readings from. Being on an aluminum boat the threat of electrolysis is a very real problem and with what I researched stray high voltage,especially around marinas with shore power and boats with generators. When I noticed some possible signs of that is when I found the readings I described.Not wanting to throw stones but did your lites come from customfitz or are the chinese lites.I had a friend check his boat with 120 volt LED's constructed with lite rail and mounted the same way and he had less than. 05 volts to earth ground from the hull on his boat,but his weren't customfitz lites...

 

U2u at ya

 

Is your genny bonded to the hull?

 

No, never ran it bonded or grounded to the hull,just sitting on carpeted wood deck is a basstracker. Just cords thru gfi recepticles,as gonna drag the gennie out and put on the boat,but was getting the stray voltage readings on the trailer in the yard running on extension cord. Ran halos 2 yrs and never noticed an issue...did as a test run ground wire from ground screw on plug to hull and still had stray voltage on hull on extension cord/ shore power.

 

I don't know if this makes a difference but every Chinese led that I've had apart so far has had the green wire disconnected inside the housing. You might check your lights.

 

Our lights have grounds connected, are stripped back wires under strain relief nut on fixture.

 

Is there such a thing as an LED that is not from China? Even any supposedly American LEDs are Chinese parts assembled here.

 

Do the LED's have two or three wire cord? I guess what i am getting at is sometimes if you have stray voltage you need to bond the neutral to the ground in the electrical field. On most applications somewhere you will have your system bonded and i would say since your running your lights off of a generator it is not. I would try to put a jumper between the ground and neatral in your cord cap going to your generator and check for stray voltage.

 

Electricaly isolate your lights from the hull. Disconnect the light bar and suspend it or wood blocks, or all the lights independently. Then test it. If your readings are the same it's comming from the wires or genny. Induced current from the wires or problem with genny. If it fixes it, check the lights. If it's the lights then check each one seperately. Use a process of elimination to isolate the problem. If you bond your genny to the hull it should assorb any stray currents but will only make it safe not fix the problem. Sounds like an issue inside the light housings.

Where are you located?

 

We're DelMarVa eastern shore side bay,did isolate 1 lite with nylon nuts bolts and washers and stray voltage went away on that one lite tried other lite removed the ac driver off the back of the housing and held in my hand and still had stray ac voltage present figured is from the fixture led array,thats what dvf came up with and sent me a pm.He removed led array and hi temp siliconed under the array to cure his problem.Mine sppears to be the same but with ac voltage not dc like the low voltage lites...

 

If its shorting to the case the ground wire should eliminate it, if it's hooked up right. Sounds like a trace on the PC board might be shorting.I'm in Chesapeake if you want to bring it down on day we can give look over. Im off most of next week then out of town the week after.

 

Here is the video that we tested today to show what is up One light insulated and one not

 

The driver has no place to hook a ground up to it. It just has two wires going in and two wires going out. At least that is the way it is on the dc voltage ones.

 

Just got to see the video. I need to think on this. I do question your ground, with the little contact in the dirt you may have more voltage than your reading on the meter. If you can find a known ground like a steel pipe or house ground. You need an accurate reading.

 

4 words



Quantum Confined Stark Effect

:co:

 

4 words



Quantum Confined Stark Effect
:co:

Thanks Istickem I figured someone on here would chime in, can you put it in simple country boy terms and is it anything to worry about and could it be a cause for possible electrolysis,and anything to do to correct it if it is a problem.

 

I havent seen the inside of the driver box so I making some assumptions. Definately get a second opinion. I think the pc board is shorting to the housing after the line voltage. Im guessing they use half wave rectification to get about 50v then a voltage regulator to get the 25v to 30v needed to drive LED chip through the current regulation circuit, since transformers cost more. Instead of troubleshooting the board without a schematic, electrically isolate the pc board from the case, mounts and green wires. . Just let it hang for now of rest on insolated blocks. Check it with an ohm meter. Should be just a couple of ohms. Then test again. Without it mounted in the case there should be now where to short to the case. If the stray voltage goes away then mount the board with nonconducting fastners or bed it with silicon. The board is hot anyway and will be sealed inside of the case so there will be no hazard there. Attach the green wire from the plug wire to the case, really really good and cover it with sealant. This connection must stay clean. So white wire to the board, black wire to the board and green wire to the case. Now if the light floods or the pc board falls loose in the case and touches something, the green wire will carry the current back to the genny.

 

Well its not simple, riverrocket nailed it, lots of assumptions have to be made not being there.
Is the earth you tested to close to the ground rod for the panel feeding that cord?
Have you tested with the generator?
Could be neutral to earth voltage happening made worse by a short in the neutral.
If you are near powerlines, a substation, or big electric installs its more likely.

 

Well its not simple, riverrocket nailed it, lots of assumptions have to be made not being there.
Is the earth you tested to close to the ground rod for the panel feeding that cord?
Have you tested with the generator?
Could be neutral to earth voltage happening made worse by a short in the neutral.
,If you are near power lines, a substation, or big electric installs its more likely.

Thanks for reply again. Power lines and transformers are overhead across the street over 200 ft away,house ground rod and electric box is about 75 feet away, I will drag out the gennie and retest since is how we use everything on the water. Everything is/ was grounded thru the cords that plug into the gennie. Have continuity from ground prong on all cords to all housings or fixtures and are all grounded to rail and boat except the one I have insulated with nylon bolts and washers...

 

8/4/12 update-Did OBG suggestion and ran ground wire from driver chassis to strain relief nut on fixture where cord was grounded ,there was no continuity from driver chassis to fixture housing where was mounted in the fixtures.Plugged in and basically no change in voltage readings thru hull,was pretty much same as before. Next took LED array loose and temporary insulated (insulated with couple pieces paper under arry) to keep it away from the housing as DVF said and sent me a pm about,plugged that one lite in and voltage readings thru the hull dropped dramatically to around just under or around 1 volt,I am going to try a bead of hi temp silicone around outside edge of array with heat thermal compound under array in center,and try find small nylon screws to mount the array to try and keep it insulated. This seemed to work and seems to be the solution to our problem, my next step is to try modify a couple lites and try with gennie and try on water and see if I get any voltage readings....thanks and will keep everyone posted. I think this is interesting with the popularity of LED's I knew dvf noticed an issue and so did I so am sure there will be others caught in this learning curve.

 

This is so complicated and I don't understand any of it. Will one of you knowledgable guys please PM me your phone # so i can call you when I am ready to install my LEDs? I'll be using either a 12 or 24 volt system...don't know which at this time. Thanks!

 

garp did you ever figure out what was going on?

 

?

Insulated everything light brackets and light rail from hull with nylon bushings and different bolts and eliminated my findings as seen in video. Also had suggestion if had same readings on genny vs house power and didn't see it with gennie. Might of been chasing my tail a bit thatz why postex the thread. Was crazy for sure. Noticed some pitting spots on the hull along waterline area, is an older unpainted hull 1989 basstracker. Another thing was light rail was made from stainless and stainless bolted solid to aluminum and have since found out is a big no-no as far as dissimilar metal and electrolysis is concerned . The new 2072 Seaark is all aluminum light rail welded to hull, have aluminum bolts and brackets for "NEW" led's,and have (2) zincs or anodes on the back of the new boat. Trying to eliminate all or as much stainless as possible out of the boat. But will check everything with meter when get lites mounted.

 

Man I am glad I run a fiberglass hull!

Hope you got it all resolved, sucks when chinese take shortcuts and we have to fix it down the line!

 

Not to hyjack this post, but can this happen with the 27watters? I just installed mine directly to my galvanized rail this morning and wired em up... I'd like to stop the problem befor it happens if its possible

 

It

Not to hyjack this post, but can this happen with the 27watters? I just installed mine directly to my galvanized rail this morning and wired em up... I'd like to stop the problem before it happens if its possible

Not sure..would take a DC voltmeter and check hull to earth ground possibly.And check from battery + to hull and battery- to hull should get no voltage readings. Also NEVER use the hull as conductor for positive or ground/ neg. from the battery or load ex.(lights). Always run back to a terminal block with wires from battery or loads. And when bought our new boat, the dealer is from saltwater area and advised very anal about keeping stainless and other non aluminum screws, bolts, hardware off the boat for dissimilar metal electrolysis reasons. Also we had aluminum brackets welded on transom to mount the zinc anodes so when get eaten up they dont eat the aluminum transom with permanent damage. I actually noticed the problem first,did some research and calls as far as what could be cause, then started checking everything with meter a/c and d/c noticed this.

 

Dang, your starting to make me nervous now.