[Old Bald Guy]

If it were only a few minutes difference in run time I would agree that testing would be hard. Since it's almost 2 hours difference testing would be easy imo.

 

[beendare]

OK ,this is bugging me....

I called the tech line for US Battery and posed the question to them "any advantage time wise hooking it up in series 24v or parallel 12v?"

He basically said what OBG is saying- you have a finite amount of storage and it works out to be the same either way. He said you have to think of the parallel setup as 2- 12v batteries each drawing 10a [in my 10a at 24 and 20 at 12example]- not 20a total. So there is no 'added time" wiring at 24v.

A couple other comments I found interesting;

He said you cannot think of battery power as linear. He gave the example of drawing a lot of current cranking your car over for 2 minutes straight- battery poops out. So drawing very high amps consistently is not how these batteries work.

He also said there are more problems with parallel installs than series....didn't really get into the "Why"

 

[Old Bald Guy]

I called the tech line for US Battery and posed the question to them "any advantage time wise hooking it up in series 24v or parallel 12v?"

He basically said what OBG is saying- you have a finite amount of storage and it works out to be the same either way. He said you have to think of the parallel setup as 2- 12v batteries each drawing 10a [in my 10a at 24 and 20 at 12example]- not 20a total. So there is no 'added time" wiring at 24v.

A couple other comments I found interesting;

He said you cannot think of battery power as linear. He gave the example of drawing a lot of current cranking your car over for 2 minutes straight- battery poops out. So drawing very high amps consistently is not how these batteries work.

He also said there are more problems with parallel installs than series....didn't really get into the "Why"

"He said you cannot think of battery power as linear. He gave the example of drawing a lot of current cranking your car over for 2 minutes straight- battery poops out. So drawing very high amps consistently is not how these batteries work."
The chart shows this.

"He also said there are more problems with parallel installs than series....didn't really get into the "Why""
I think wiring in parallel like the picture will take care of a lot of the "parallel" isssues.

 

[cajun outlaw]

All this technical talk makes my head feel like I been shootin rite next to the genny all nite.
24 v more better with more lites.
Oranges more better den apples.
Flounders is more better den stingerays.
A ticket to the game is more better than a ticket from the man.
Coming home smellin like fish at daylight more better den smellin da perfum.
all the above,i guarontee.

 

[Istickem]

I just spoke to the same tech, he said you talked to him, I had a good talk I kinda pushed on the why. So I will fully eat crow, each battery, IF WIRED PROPERLY, will provide 10 amps or close to it depending on each circuits resistance/condition. And peukerts is not applicable, I apologize.
But I was not incorrect that a 24v will provide more run time, the tech went on to list the many advantages that make 24v more efficient and provide longer run time,as well as longer battery life that were pointed out earlier in the thread, such as parallel cells will discharge in non-use if uneven.

 

[cajun outlaw]

The way my simple mind reads it is:
More run time / more better.
more efficient....more better.
Longer batt. Life......you guessed it.

 

[Old Bald Guy]

I just spoke to the same tech, he said you talked to him, I had a good talk I kinda pushed on the why. So I will fully eat crow, each battery, IF WIRED PROPERLY, will provide 10 amps or close to it depending on each circuits resistance/condition. And peukerts is not applicable, I apologize.
But I was not incorrect that a 24v will provide more run time, the tech went on to list the many advantages that make 24v more efficient and provide longer run time,as well as longer battery life that were pointed out earlier in the thread, such as parallel cells will discharge in non-use if uneven.

Well if you were correct and 24 volts will provide more run time why eat crow? There is no such thing as kinda right or kinda wrong. If in the led scenario mentioned by the OP the led's will run noticeably longer on 2 batteries in series than in parallel share the info as to why. I'm always open to learn stuff. For real-not being a butthead just truly curious.

 

[Istickem]

Im eating crow because I used peukerts as my main reason for 24v being more efficient. I knew the difference was not as large as the chart. As I stated the tech pointed out, and I did earlier, the big issue is with paralleling cells, if one is weak all are weak, and the stronger is burdened with evening out the parallel circuit. In series it does not effect other batteries it just lowers its %. Batteries wear out, it is inherent, as is the rate at which they do so, they actually do so from the second they are manufactured.
Basically twice as many amps equals higher losses from a finite source so its likely paralleled batteries will be uneven. Also charging paralleled batteries can cause issues, such as overcharging one cell or not enough on others.
As I said early, there are many advantages to higher voltage all things equal. If it were not minnkota wouldnt use 36v on the 101 and they would just tell you to parallel 3 batteries, and it isnt JUST wire size.
So again I apologize for pushing peukerts in the particular scenario, and stand by my position 24v is superior to 12v here.

 

[Old Bald Guy]

Hopefull the original poster got his questions answered. If not---well at least he got a lot of interesting reading.

 

[Istickem]

I agree, Im not above learning new things, I am glad and thankful to all, I hope everyone can get good info and go bowfishin.

 

[czachary]

Lots of info here but the way i read this thread after you two said the same thing to each other 4 times is that it makes not one lick of differance. Thanks for input!

 

[Old Bald Guy]

Lots of info here but the way i read this thread after you two said the same thing to each other 4 times is that it makes not one lick of differance. Thanks for input!

I think you about summed it up. I confused myself several times in this thread. lol

 

[cajun outlaw]

Oh,and by the way,you might try you some red wingd blackbird smothered in onions and a lil grease,over rice.......taste more better den crow.lol.

 

[Istickem]

If you guys want to believe paralleling your batteries making all your batteries as weak as the weakest battery means same run time as series circuit without this flaw, well I guess I should get some stock in a battery company. They say ignorance is bliss, but I just dont see it. lol

 

[Old Bald Guy]

If you guys want to believe paralleling your batteries making all your batteries as weak as the weakest battery means same run time as series circuit without this flaw, well I guess I should get some stock in a battery company. They say ignorance is bliss, but I just dont see it. lol

Seems to me a weak battery would affect parallel and series. If that makes me ignorant I'm happy to be ignorant.

 

[Istickem]

That diagram has absolutely nothing to do with capacitance or a batteries point in it life cycle, Both do effect the total voltage in both systems, its just one has a negative effect, in parallel, the moment they electrically connected in parallel, the battery with more capacitance will start send amps to the lower battery as it not is electrically the same potential lowering the overall capacitance. In series the battery capacitance is simply added to each other so there is NO loss trying to become one battery. THAT is why 24v will run longer, provide longer battery life, and have less losses.
Interesting how you bring up losses in electrical systems sometimes but then basically wants to ignore them at other times.

 

[Old Bald Guy]

That diagram has absolutely nothing to do with capacitance or a batteries point in it life cycle, Both do effect the total voltage in both systems, its just one has a negative effect, in parallel, the moment they electrically connected in parallel, the battery with more capacitance will start send amps to the lower battery as it not is electrically the same potential lowering the overall capacitance. In series the battery capacitance is simply added to each other so there is NO loss trying to become one battery. THAT is why 24v will run longer, provide longer battery life, and have less losses.
Interesting how you bring up losses in electrical systems sometimes but then basically wants to ignore them at other times.

I don't wants to ignore anything. Since now we have a stronger and a weaker battery in parallel with the stonger battery charging the weaker battery is that electricity lost? Or does the weaker battery become stronger? Sorry, I realize I'm ignorant but I'm not seeing anything here that will make the OP's led's run noticeably longer with his batteries in series.

As an afterthought running them as long as they will burn on 2 batteries in series probably will favor the 24 volt system since the low of the led driver's operating voltage range will be reached later in the 24 volt system's batteries' discharge cycle. Other side of the coin draining the batteries until the are completely dead isn't conductive to long battery life so getting those few extra minutes probably wouldn't be a good idea imo.

 

[czachary]

Guys chill out i solved the problem.
I bought 2 225 amp hour batteries and will be running the lights off one of them at a time just so i have an emergency backup.

I decided i WILL NOT run in 24 V because afraid I will stay out to long and drain the batteries wayyyy to far down and ruin them quicker that way.

 

[Istickem]

Depends if the low battery is low because it simply was not charged fully, or could be the cell has deteriorated as to limit the possible high voltage which will bring the other down to its level, if the previous, the voltage will find middle ground between the voltage difference, which in turn forces the load to draw more amps, and therefore lower capacity since the watt load is unchanged so either way their is a loss, heck any time any amperage flows, their are losses.
Also charging 12v batts in parallel can confuse smart charges delivering its charge unevenly further amplifying the first issue.

czachary, I too have 225 amp hour batts, but by choosing to run them one at a time (12v) you have now brought that chart of peukerts law into effect and your run time will be quite a bit less than using both 24v. Just fyi.
Hands down the best thing one can do to a deep cycle is never discharge below 50%

 

[Old Bald Guy]

Guys chill out i solved the problem.
I bought 2 225 amp hour batteries and will be running the lights off one of them at a time just so i have an emergency backup.

I decided i WILL NOT run in 24 V because afraid I will stay out to long and drain the batteries wayyyy to far down and ruin them quicker that way.

Heck, I stay chilled. And yes your total run time will be longer with both those batteries hooked together-in parallel or series.